Empowering the Next Generation: The Key to Building a Technological Utopia

Johannes Castner: 0:36

Hello and welcome. I am Johannes. Uh, welcome to the show. I'm here today with Amara Sesay , um, who is the founder, uh, and leader of the, uh, wi Wiseteen Impact Lab. And, and this is in, in Nigeria. If I, if I am correct.

Amara Sesay: 0:56

Yeah. Uh, I'm actually, I'm actually in Nigeria, but I, I was born in Sierra Leone, so more or less connected to the two affiliated to the two countries.

Johannes Castner: 1:07

Okay, great, great, great. And you are building the, the digital leaders of the future? Yes. In, in, in Nigeria. Yes. Um, so could you tell us a little bit about how you use technology and, and, and your education and why this is important? and, uh, yeah, just, just tell us a little bit about your experience.

Amara Sesay: 1:30

Okay. Uh, so actually when I was in school, I studied education in school. I discovered that there are a lot of things that are missing in terms of, uh, the nexus between what people learn in school and what the society and the digital, uh, growth that we are exp experiencing globally requires from learners. So I felt that, uh, there's a very, very huge mismatch between what you spend your whole time learning in school and what is required of you after you leave school. and this is particularly true for children at the basic level. So what I felt, uh, an immediate action I felt that could be done was after leaving school, uh, start, uh, designing programs around children and technology and how best to leverage technology for them, by trying to build, uh, makers of technology, even if they don't end up building apps, but they view technology from the first principle. they see it as people who are not just consuming technology. People who are not just victims of technology, but people who know the right things to do with technology for themselves and for the society. So I, I, I felt it was very, very important to start this movement with children. So that was what I did after school, was to start a program, get affiliated, a school, a primary school, like maybe a K12 in the American instance, uh, So I started this program and we started discussing with children around, uh, what could you use technology for beyond gaming and social media. And, uh, how, how do you, how do you use technology to forge your leadership skills? Uh, what or how do you use technology to, to fast track your education and, uh, access to quality education? So this were the discussions we introduced around children and their parents. And to a large extent, it was successful because, uh, when I traveled to Australia, uh, so I, I got, uh, I, I, I got shortlisted for a United Nation Youth uh, innovation Award. So that was some full of validation that, uh, this is really something that the world needs. So after that we had a lot of iterations of the program. Uh, sometimes it is just advocacy, like, uh, I was a, a, a, I was a very, very, uh, regular host and a program called Education Platform, a TV program. So we had to talk about the nexus between policy and technology and children. And how do we try to align all these things and see that they work in the best interest of the children? Because for me, I felt everything has to, uh, the whole fabric around building great technology is children. Yeah. Because, and that is, uh, what is missing usually at the design points, even though you know that, uh, the future generation are the children, they are the ones that are going to be more in the metaverse. They are the ones that are going to be more in, uh, blockchain, especially maybe in the gaming aspect. But the design of, uh, the technology essentially does not take into consideration their own mental health needs, uh, does not take into consideration their level of maturation. So these technologies are faced of all designed for adults, and then children are viewed as miniature men. So these are already men, but miniature men. So instead of viewing them as children and building, uh, designing things that fit around them. So my belief about technology is that if we design things, uh, uh, around children, everybody's gonna be fine. But if we design things for the markets for people who can afford it, then we now want to see how we can bring children into the beat. It is too late. So a lot of problems, and that is, I believe that is what we face with issues like Instagram and TikTok and other social media that, that, uh, used the power of AI and algorithms to really cause a lot of harm for children. Uh, I, and I believe the discussion is just starting with more technologies. Uh, the leverage AI and the power of the data, we are going to have a lot of these problems, and that is why discussions like yours are important.

Johannes Castner: 6:15

Yeah, I think so. I agree. It has to be a global one as well, because people don't realize where they build software, you know who they're building it for. Uh, you know, half the time they just think about, uh oh. Actually, most of the time they think about scaling. And, uh, you know, selling to more people and, and they actually don't, don't really have a very close relationship to, uh, to, to the people on the ground, um, as you do. So that's, uh, that's, you know, a very important perspective. Also, the, the perspective of the educator and, uh, with regards to, uh, technology. and that's why I'm very happy to have you on my show as well. So how do you use technology in practice? Um, when it comes to, um, uh, currently it, it, when it comes to your educational projects.

Amara Sesay: 7:07

Okay. Uh, so for me, I believe technology has to meet, uh, the people where they are; like you. It has to, it has to go to where the people congregate., not like, uh, they struggling to catch up with technology, especially for children. So, uh, there are things that are new to them, but there are also things that they have experience about from home. So, for example, when I was designing 10 for 10, it was an educational project that was meant to, uh, Uh, uh, taking the whole idea of leaving no one there behind the United Nations SDG stuff about leaving no one behind to a new dimension. So, uh, how do we involve children in funding the education of other children, uh, less privileged children? So we are looking at what technologies are will enable that. So I find out that, uh, instead of trying to look at something very sophisticated, Uh, just teaching children how to make a better use of WhatsApp and some aspect of Excel or Google Sheets, uh, might do a lot of things instead of introducing, uh, just, uh, sophisticated technology just for the name, just to say that, oh, uh, this is something new. Uh, this is something recent because at the end of the day, uh, you are trying to, uh, solve problems that don't even exist with technologies that are forged or upon people. So I, I, I discover that, uh, let's look at the things that they already know about the things that they already use. Uh, things that have already worked for them in our own societies. They might not be using it the right way, but now, uh, there's a leverage. Uh, so how do we, how do we take them from those technologies and then to places where they actually need these technologies. Uh, but they might not know their existence. Uh, they might, maybe they tried using it once or twice and they found it hard. But if we take them, and that is the general principle of education. Everything has to begin from simple to complex and not the other way around. So, uh, that is it technologies that are already

Johannes Castner: 9:31

Well, yeah, I think that, uh, it's actually a big trend. There's a big trend in technology now to, to make user interfaces more friendly, actually. So the newest things sometimes might be the things that, that actually are easier to use for children. I mean, or even for, for, for anyone really. Um, you know, these, these graphical user interfaces and make it possible for you to build all sorts of, uh, you know, algorithms., you know, um, you know, are now available. That, that there, there's a strength of democratization of technology and, and there, you know, that I've been already talking to people on, uh, about, on my show, and I don't know if that impacts you at all. So, for example, the fact that, Google Translate now allows you to very easily speak with someone or, or more easily speak with someone in, uh, who, who speaks a completely different language and, and various tools like that. Uh, are, are, are you using any of those in, uh, are you bringing children to the sort of, to this kind of trend of, of democratization, of technology?

Amara Sesay: 10:48

Yeah. Uh, so basically the key goal of Wiseteen Impact Lab was to see how children become leaders in technology, not just consumers. Uh, because my, my, my central thesis was that, uh, if you limit people to just using technology, what happen is that they get to overuse the technology, and if they overuse the technology, it gets to affect other aspect of their life, especially their mental health. So, uh, why don't you teach them that? There are technologies out there that put them in the driver's seats, for example. A lot of, uh, new, uh, no code.

Johannes Castner: 11:31

Yeah,

Amara Sesay: 11:32

A lot of new, no code, uh, tools give them the upper hand to use technology in very innovative ways. So even though they are, they are not the original of this te., but there a lot of ways they can play around it. For example, the Google, uh, translate app. So it makes you feel that sense of ownership and there is that democratization of how technology is used and at the same time, the ability to build on something that has already been built, not just something brought to you in, in, uh, in whole format and you don't have anything to do about it. So most of the technologies we, we are using, especially in the web two, uh, it's, you don't have any control over how to manipulate these technologies. Your role is more or less like, uh, a living product, like an organic product to feed data into that technology. But, uh, with, uh, the new movement in technology, emerging technologies and ai, uh, Blockchain, we see that there is a move towards, uh, democratization. Uh, it's very, very interesting for the educator because this time you're not just teaching children how to use technology, but they're also teaching them how they can also, uh, build on top of existing technologies and also, uh, impact the lives of others. Because what I've discovered is that children., uh, then they're not just obsessed about technology, but they're obsessed about how technology can make them, uh, can give them a better self-esteem and how technology can make them, uh, be useful and how technology can increase their impact on the world. So if you shift the conversation from just games, social media, and. I, I believe there's something they are finding there, but they cannot find it. And that is what leads the mental disconnect. But if we shift that conversation to things, they can build upon existing technologies, like for example, using low code. Uh, for example, in one of our discussions with children during, uh, one of my boot camps, so I was asking them what is the problem at home that you can use technology to build. Uh, for example, a very simple, uh, instance is using, uh, Canva to design maybe a roster at home and saying, okay, uh, this is how a workflow should go at home. This is what my siblings should do, and this is how, uh, things should work, for example, or using, uh, Google, uh, sheets, for example, to, to, to, uh, To determine maybe an inventory of things you have at home and, uh, who takes care of what. So some form of leadership, but around the basic technologies we have. But now you are using them to create impact. You are using them to bring organization into the home. Uh, you are using them to, to bring a, a more robust, uh, management of property so they can actually grow from this, uh, data at the micro level to start thinking of how do I think of security in my neighborhood? Maybe through Google Sheet, maybe through, we have a central sheet, for example, where, uh, anybody that sees any security threats can actually upload it in real time. And everybody in the neighborhood gets, uh, some awareness through Google sheets because it's there in real time in the cloud and everybody have access to it. So Abba, basically we are looking at how do you, yeah. How do you, how do you move them from just, uh, being obsessed about these technologies and using it to a point where it start affecting their mental health, their self esteem, to a point where they feel a sense of ownership.

Johannes Castner: 15:48

Yeah. It's also a ma matter of how old children are. Right? For example, my children, they're too young to even, I, I don't want them to be exposed to screens very much. My son is, uh, three, three and a half, almost actually almost four. And my other son is, uh, six months old. So they're very young. Um, and I don't, I wouldn't want to have them near any kind of technology actually, or, I mean, of the sort that we are talking about , with screens. But, but at what age do you introduce children, um, uh, to, to technology. That's also a question. I, I, I had.

Amara Sesay: 16:27

Yeah, for me, basically I, uh, I, I work, uh, within the, the, uh, the seven to 17, uh, prisom. Uh, but I, I feel like most parents their, their children to technology. And, and that's what makes it really, really complex. Uh, when you are discussing technology, uh, with parents. Because, uh, for some, the, the, uh, the tech is more or less like an assistant parent and which is really, really dangerous. because you cannot, uh, technology cannot take the place of that warm human touch between, for example, the mother and the child, or the father's interaction with the child. Uh, but because of the nature of the economy and the fact that they have to juggle a lot of things, uh, to make ends meet. So a lot of parents, uh, would rather have tech to substitute that quality time they have with their children. And that is why you see some parents, right from age two, they're exposing their children to technology because when the children are crying or trying tantrums and they expose them to phone, I think there's something the screen does to their, to their, to their brain that makes them keep quiet or that makes them excited. So, uh, and it's relieves some stress from the parent, especially when they have had a stressful day. But, uh, I, I believe it's, it might be difficult to put an age, uh, cap on what, uh, age, uh, should a child be exposed to technology? Except when they are very, very strong, uh, research findings that, uh, could apply for people and probably it has to move from culture to culture. And sometimes the pressure is also, uh, some parents if their, uh, colleagues, there's also peer pressure among parents. If they are, if their own friends, children are exposed to technology, especially if they're doing things with technology cool things with technology, uh, they'll be under pressure to expose their own children also to technology. And, uh, because they believe that, uh, uh, if other people's children are doing it and it's fine for them, then my own children, uh, should do it. But personally, I feel, uh, children should not be explicit technology probably before the age of four or five. I think for me, uh, five year old, uh, should be more. The natural environment and interacting with humans and the natural world because they hold as the whole Yes. The whole exposure to screen and, and, and, and I, I, I think there's a way it permanently alters the brain, uh, which may not be a good thing at

Johannes Castner: 19:39

Yeah, it does. Then what you were speaking. I mean, what you were speaking about earlier, this thing about not having enough time because you have to juggle too many things. Then the technology comes in, in that, in that age because the parents are overwhelmed and the parents are overwhelmed because of a perpetuated. This sort of perpetuates the inequality in the world. It's when you have one where parenting ch children , when you, when you raise children, In a way, when you have too many other things to struggle, to struggle with so many other things in, in, in that kind of way, with, with, with technology, then they will be probably not able to do, to achieve as much, and, and then the stress will continue because they, they will. Basically it will perpetuate poverty in that way. I think because it is indeed, unequal the way that that happens,? This is a systemic inequality right here we're talking about. I can, uh, uh, my wife and I can take care of our children when, when we're done with work before, they're in really great facilities where they're exposed to a lot. Actually my, my son goes to the forest school, so he's in the forest all day, uh, twice a week. And then the other three days he's with , it's a very diverse school. Um, it's, it's a fantastic place. And, and anyway, it's very human to human, right. And then when, when we are, when we're done with that, Then we are all here in the, in the evening and we we're spending the time together. So there are no screens involved in that, except then maybe every once in a while there is a video or something like this, that, that is, um, a poetic of a poetic nature or something with some music. But, but it's, and then there are some people who are so overwhelmed that they have to just put them in front of social media or whatever. and, um, to basically pacify them. And then what happens is you are right. They are, they're unequally affected by this technology now because they are more exposed to it. Um, and so that's a, a huge un unfairness injustice you could say , that is perpetuated then through technology in a way.

Amara Sesay: 22:10

Yeah. I, I, I, I think, uh, there's also that aspect of, uh, in inequality and, uh, access, uh, the difference in access to resources, uh, difference in access to free time. Uh, the difference in access to an environment that enables the children to grow at their right level of maturity. So, so many things go into it, and that is why I actually, I'm happy for people, uh, like you that are shifting this discussion from just building technologies and, uh, just focusing on one culture to looking at technology holistically. Uh, looking at the universal appeal of technology and what problems is cons, if it is solving problems somewhere else in the world, Uh, what problems is it creating in another part of the world, maybe same technology, but it is, uh, verified, attuned to the problems of Australia, for example. It is solving their problems, but when that technology, uh, moves over the border and gets to, uh, Indonesia, for example, it's caused a lot of problems because of the, uh, because of, uh, the standard of living, uh, because of the exposure, lack of exposure to other technologies. Uh, I just said technologies that will make that technology more useful. So I, I've been, uh, discussions around technology. Sometimes, uh, there are a lot of problems around technology and that is why we don't get it right. For example, when we started discussions around blockchain, everything went to Bitcoin. Uh, nobody was looking at, uh, nobody was looking at cybersecurity. Nobody was talking about, uh, the, the grid and, uh, other aspects of life that are connected around the technology. So, uh, we, we have fixated about the technology. And what it should do in terms of democratizing access to finance. Uh, but nobody, uh, looked at it from the very, very holistic point of view. And that is why discussions like this are very, very important because now we are talking about schools. Education, educators and technology, but see, uh, how the convers the conversation moved into inequality and into standard of living.

Johannes Castner: 24:48

Mm-hmm.

Amara Sesay: 24:48

into, uh, into poverty and wealth, into, uh, class because like what you and your own society, the access your children have, is it the same access, uh, my brothers children have? Or is it the same access that somebody in the war torn region, for example, in Syria, uh uh, or maybe Palestine or some other place, but all these children have access to the same technology, right. And they all use WhatsApp. Uh, they might be, they, they, they all have access to, let's say they all have access to Google Play Store and they can download any of his psychologists. But a lot of things around them that should aid, uh, the best outcome for that technology are not available. So at end of the day, whilst it was meant to be positive for the child in UK and uh, San Francisco, it is going to have negative consequences for the child in, say, Gaza or say, uh, Legos. Say some other place that are not as developed as those societies. And that is why, uh, we need a lot of, uh, not just educators, but we need a lot of designers and developers to be on your show because by the time we get to view, uh, technology holistically, it is going to affect even the code. So, because for now the another bias in how these codes are, because they are written on the assumption that we are living in a free and in, in a fair world to a large extent. Uh, they are written on the assumption that technology is a leveler for everybody around the world. They are written on the assumption that once people have access, uh, to the software, uh, they're gonna do great things with it. So you are not considering, for example, access to the infrastructure. Let's say I did not have, uh, a very good internet today. Everything was set for the interview, but if I did not have access to very good internet, that will have spoiled everything. So your assumption is that, uh, your assumption is that this, uh, tech, uh, is gonna work perfectly because it is good. It is a good technology. You've tried it in the uk, it's fantastic. But now you're talking to somebody. In the heart of Africa, it's not going to be the same outcome. So if we build technology with,

Johannes Castner: 27:28

we have tested it today,

Amara Sesay: 27:30

yeah. Is it going to be a utopia? Uh, or is it going to be a dystopian situation at the universal level and then try to come back? You understand? If we have that end in mind? So I, I, I feel, I, I

Johannes Castner: 27:44

sometimes, sometimes you have both at the same.. Amara Sesay: Yeah. I, I, I think, I think there should be a special, uh, there, there should be special causes like this, for example, uh, in the university. So maybe in the long term who, who push for having, uh, a course around utopia and dystopia of technology that developers must, it should be a composite cost for developers and designers because it is when people have this exposure that they build, uh, technology with more empathy. and the build technology with a global outlook. Mm-hmm.. Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly. That is, that is what I'm after also in this show. Exactly. That is precisely it. You have, well, uh, well put, well put you, you know, Amara actually, uh, uh, I wanted to point out, uh, another guest on, on my show, uh, recently. Has pointed out about the, the, uh, has spoken about the collaborative economy. Do you know anything about that? Because I think for children to get involved, in, in projects directly in, in, in collaborative way , you were saying the word leader, but I think we're shifting actually, interestingly, in, I don't know, in, in San Francisco and in London, we're shift. toward a, um, a collaborative approach of work where, where we don't have necessarily leaders or followers or, or, um, we don't divide it quite like that, but we're thinking of it more in terms of a conversation as, as well, even the building of technology itself.

Amara Sesay: 29:22

Yeah. For me, I've always been an advocate of, uh, a collaborative building and that's why, uh, when I studied., the design thinking approach of ibm. I think something I was really interested in is the fact that, uh, their users become part of the builders of the technology at some point. So, uh, that mindset of, uh, seeing users as co-, uh, developers,

Johannes Castner: 29:49

yeah,

Amara Sesay: 29:49

I think it solves a lot of problem. Because you don't have to build

Johannes Castner: 29:53

co-creators. Yes, yes, exactly. Yes.

Amara Sesay: 29:54

These, these, these are co-creators, uh, these are the end users of the technology.

Johannes Castner: 29:59

I think that's right. Yeah.

Amara Sesay: 30:00

Let's start with the end in mind instead of, uh, solving a problem. And I'll go into the wall and say, ah, is there a problem like this?

Johannes Castner: 30:08

Yeah, we can do that. There's users, right? So if we are Yeah, we, yeah, exactly. Because if we are, if we are the users and the creators , at the same time, We, we will know the problem

Amara Sesay: 30:19

Yes.

Johannes Castner: 30:20

That we're solving because we, we will know the problems on the ground. So this is kind of this idea of, that there is something around the shared economy, something about the collaborative economy as it is known. um, uh, you know, I was, I was speaking, uh, actually it was, uh, Somil Gupta about this exact topic. So it's like we, instead of, um, and, and then there's also this idea of decentralization of organizations at the same time, right? So, which is, which is yet another piece that fits in. And, and I was speaking to Ashish about this Ashish Kumar Singh. Um, about this topic, actually. And so I think all of them sort of fit into this educational aspect as well. Right. So there is an, uh, there is something about, uh, educating the children for a collaborative approach that might be global, that might be decentralized. So we don't work for a company, but we are the company or we are part of it.

Amara Sesay: 31:23

Yes,

Johannes Castner: 31:24

in a sense all of our lives, it's not just., it, it could, could really transform into this more creative approach to work. And if you, if you learn about this early. That work itself, the professional world can be much more creative than, you show up to in the morning to some boss and the boss either likes what you're doing or doesn't like what you're doing and whatever, and you spend your days there and your hours and you're exchanging your hours for a handful of dimes. Um, but instead what you're doing is you're creating something meaningful and

Amara Sesay: 32:00

exactly

Johannes Castner: 32:00

through that, you are creating economic value. and you are getting some of that economic value. So this, this is sort of, I, as I understand these kind of things working together, the shared economy, the, the some part, partial decentralization. Some things have to be centralized as a, uh, as, Somil Gupta has pointed out. So, um, there is, um, I don't know. So how do you feel about that with respect to your children?

Amara Sesay: 32:28

Yeah, I, I, I feel, um, I think it's something really, really true about this generation of children. Uh, it's works perfectly with their psychology. Uh, these are children that they don't want to be bossed around for any reason. And, uh, they, at the same time, they want to see themselves as people who are making a lot of impact, uh, in the world and touching the lives of others. uh, So if we have this, uh, two, uh, if you have these two, uh, disparate, uh, psyches of somebody who doesn't want to be bused around, but at the same time, this is somebody that wants to see their impact in the world, I think, uh, we, we need a middle ground. And that middle ground is creating organizations where collaboration instead of, uh, command. Uh, the center, uh, rule of operation. See if you have anion where collaboration is at the heart of things and not just, uh, bossing around, uh, giving commands and uh, uh, uh, trying to, uh, assess the fact that you say, yeah, somebody's the boss, somebody's a manager, somebody's a supervisor. But then, uh, trying to create that sense that people are coming together to create impact at a larger scale and building things, uh, involved in projects that are bigger than themselves. I think if we are able to establish that for children right from the young age, we'll start seeing interesting things. Yeah. Because, uh, for one these, uh, they have,

Johannes Castner: 34:05

it's a cultural shift from

Amara Sesay: 34:08

when we are building things at we Park Lab. My first, uh, thinking is they know more than us. But we are facilitating things for them. Uh, that is the first, my first, the, the second thinking is that, uh, they can be more focused on this because for them it's technology and technology, but for us it's technology and life. So the moment I close my computer, I'm thinking of, uh, what's, uh, you're thinking of, uh, your status as a member of the community. You're thinking of your status as a breadwinner. You're thinking of, uh, yeah, thinking of, uh, what gives, you're thinking of a lot of, a lot of other issues, but they have a lot of time. So the best thing we can do is we expose them to those aspects of, uh, technology. We. Our leadership will be needed and, and, and creates that enabling platform for them. So what they will do with that will be amazing, unlike when we just build everything and throw it at them. So the whole idea of, uh, creating the collaborative, uh, shared economy, I think work best for children even more than us because, uh, these are a fresh breed of people with fresh ideas. They just need some guidance. Uh, they just need some mentoring and they just need to know where things could go wrong because if you are, are able to expose them to some of these basic Yeah, if you're able to expose them to some of these basic yeah. Basic, uh, nitty gritties, the rest of the rest of the issue, they will handle it. And trust me, uh, these guys are bold, uh, they're very creative. and they want to be part of the world. They want their names to be mentioned, where other greats have been mentioned, and they want it to be done fast. So, uh, that's something about them. They want it fast. So the best you can do for them is create a platform and, uh, tell them some of the dangers of, uh, uh, what's like from our own experience. Some of, uh, the loopholes. So if they get to know these loopholes, it's as if you are putting them on the shoulders of giant. So whatever weaknesses, uh, whatever, whatever problems you face in building, for example, web two technologies, if you, if you, if you, if you, if you create a, a collaborative uh, space we are, you bring your experience, your failures from building for web two, and you are now taking them to the decentralized world and telling that these are all the problems that could happen, for example, in a centralized exchange. Uh, these are the problems before the ftx, uh, issue came up. If you are, let's say for example, uh, you are the company, we are, you have people like spf. As a young man, and, uh, you have experience in the global economy, how it works, and the power of greed and the power of so many other things that could go wrong in the fiat economy. So you are, and, uh, you are working with a young person, like as, uh, SBF, your, your, your biggest role is to teach them that these things could actually creep into, uh, into the blockchain economy. These are some of the things to really look out for. You should look out for greed, you should look out for things moving around. You should look out for, uh, the power of having, uh, management and how that helps, especially financial companies. So if they get to know all these things, uh, they will be able to do some other things that you, uh, might not have the energy or speech to.. So at the end of the day, it all boils down to collaboration, like everybody bringing in their own strength. So if we build an economy around, uh, the first is that everybody has to be valued. Everybody contribution is valued. That's the first thing. Uh, the second thing is that, uh, differences have to be also valued, and they are the second. The third is that everybody can contribute something meaningful if given the right platform. So if we do this

Johannes Castner: 38:39

absolutely

Amara Sesay: 38:39

basic principles in terms of how everybody collaborates on technology, I think what will happen is we'll have the utopia. If not, it's going to be a dystopia, I think that's, that's just it.

Johannes Castner: 38:55

Well, thank you very much. Um, uh, Amara, it was really fantastic speaking with you. I think, uh, I don't have any more questions to ask you and, uh, I'm sure you are also very busy. Um, but it was really great that you weighed in, um, and the educator's perspective is one that we need, that, uh, that I have not yet had. And so, um, I, I appreciate, I appreciate that very much. And, uh, is there anything else that you would like to let, uh, my listeners know, uh, or that, something, a book that interests you or that you wrote or, um, some, some project that you want people to work on with you or anything at all? Please go for it.

Amara Sesay: 39:42

Yeah. Uh, for me, I think, uh, the first thing is how do we get designers and developers to build technology around children, uh, because something I'm really, really passionate about. So if they're developers or designers out there that want to build technologies, even if it is going to start the whole world. But, uh, the fact is that if we build around children, everybody at some point get to use that technology very well. So I love to work on projects that prioritize the child. That's the first thing. So, uh, and we are inviting everybody to come on board and, uh, work with us at WiseTeen Impact Lab because the idea is how do we make children, leaders of technology? Uh, they are suffering a lot of problems in terms of their mental health, in terms of the esteem, because they do not see themselves as leaders, tech leaders. They see themselves as tech users. So we need to move that there. There has to be that paradigm shift that if you have access to technology, uh, you are already a leader. Uh, to some extent there is a way you can manipulate that technology to solve problems for others. So if you have this mindset for every child opens WhatsApp for every child that opens roadblocks, they have this mindset that you can actually use any technology in the world to solve problems. If you are going to, if somebody else is going to use that technology, then somebody else is going to need something. Somebody else is in another part of the world that does not have the access that you have.

Johannes Castner: 41:23

Mm-hmm.

, Amara Sesay: 41:23

uh, does not have the tools that you have. Uh, whatever, uh, leads, uh, lead to you are taking for granted to them, it matters a lot.

Johannes Castner: 41:31

It is really quite an important. Topic that you're working on. And, please keep up the conversation and let's, uh, let's, let's, let's discuss further. And there, there will be comments in the comments sections. People can leave comments. Maybe I didn't ask the right questions. Please let me know if, , if you wish that I had asked a certain question, uh, please let me know so I can improve. And, um, yeah, it was a beautiful thing to speak with you Amara, and, uh, I wish you a, a great day. This show is published every week on Wednesday at 5:00 AM Eastern Standard

Time, 10:00 AM in London, 2: 42:08

00 AM in la. It is published on YouTube, visually and with just the audio on all major podcasting platforms. That is Spotify, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts, and many, many others. You can also find it on my website, johannes kaner.com and go to podcast. And there you can see all of the platforms on which this show is available. it would help us if you were to like what you like. So if you, if you like a show that give it a thumbs up and if you don't like something, please give it a thumbs down. That helps us to improve. And if you could give us reasons why you like or don't like something in the comments that would help us to improve the show. Next week I will be talking about cryptocurrencies and the blockchain with Flavio Escada.

Flávio Azevedo: 43:01

Especially with, um, this new space of distributed ledger technology, blockchain and crypto are concepts that are very correlated, but, uh, separating the origins crypto becomes from, comes from cryptography that is, uh, methods to have, um, privacy and security to information. The blockchain, um, by itself is, um, a digitalization of something that is very old. That is the, the ledger books, the old ledger books that were used for the accounting.